Dining across the divide: ‘I think it’s an oversimplification to say the British empire was all wrong’

1 year ago 65

Oliver, 54, Birmingham

Occupation Natural language processing engineer

Voting record Oliver, who now has dual German/British nationality, has yet to vote in a general election in this country. He’s a member of the Green party and describes himself as: “Not a Corbynista, but left of Starmer.” In Germany, he voted for the Social Democratic party.

Amuse bouche When visiting Madame Tussauds, Oliver was mistaken for a waxwork. “Someone came up to me and looked for a label, then got a bit of a shock when I moved.”

Peter, 58, Birmingham

Occupation Software engineer; also runs an alternative clothing company

Voting record Has voted for all three main parties, and the Monster Raving Loony party. In the next general election he’ll probably vote Labour, “on the basis that the Conservatives are inept”.

Amuse bouche Peter has 11 children (three acquired by marriage), ranging in age from 19 to 42, and 11 grandchildren. “Names I can manage; birthdays, I have to keep a calendar.”

For starters

Peter We did a bit of small chat – what do you do, where are you from? He seemed quiet and reserved, but as soon as we started talking he relaxed. It was funny we were both in software.

Oliver It was Indian street food, really nice. We shared starters – aubergine fritters and onion bhajis – then I had a dosa and he had grilled chicken.

The big beef

Peter The royal family was a clear area of disagreement. For me, it’s a positive. I like the tradition, the consistency, the fact that even though they don’t have direct executive power I’m sure they influence politicians. They are good diplomats and bring in tourist business.

Oliver I’m a republican – the monarchy should be abolished. I don’t believe someone should be in a position of power by accident of birth. The Queen was very popular and probably did a reasonable job, but if you had someone totally unhinged as king or queen, there’s nothing you could do. Andrew is still eighth in the line of succession – if the others fell under a bus, would the royalists be happy with that?

Peter I don’t think an elected head of state would work well – look at Trump.

Oliver In Germany, the two chambers of parliament appoint a group to elect the president. You don’t get extremists because compromise is involved.

Sharing plate

Oliver He’s against Brexit, otherwise we would have had a screaming match. Leaving the EU has caused so many problems – it’s a no-brainer to be part of the biggest trade and political union.

Peter I started with an open mind, but nobody could give me a reason for doing it that actually stood up to scrutiny. And it’s been an absolute car crash.

Oliver My suspicion is that Russia had a hand in Brexit: splitting us off from the rest of Europe can only be of interest to someone like Putin. My parents don’t visit us any more because they don’t have passports.

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Peter It was based on misleading populism. My clothing business was crashed by Brexit. I’m 100% against it.

For afters

Oliver I feel that all ex-imperial countries – pretty much every country in Europe – have done horrendous things and they should apologise.

Peter I would apologise if I – not my ancestors – had done something wrong. The idea that Britain should apologise for something that happened 200 or 300 years ago doesn’t compute.

Oliver I feel strongly about this from a German perspective. I’m not responsible for the Holocaust – I was born 30 years after it happened. I am responsible for making sure it doesn’t happen again. I think Britain is very bad at dealing with its past. In Germany, some people say it’s going too far – digging out everything that went wrong and feeling guilty about it – but if you don’t, things will just get repeated.

Peter I think it’s an oversimplification to say the empire was all wrong and we are all evil scum. Those countries benefited as well. We took our system of law into the world and the world is a better place for it.

Takeaways

Oliver It was mostly details we disagreed on. It was interesting to talk about things you wouldn’t normally talk about with someone you don’t know. We got on well – we are both tolerant.

Peter I get involved in online discussions, but they tend to be shouting: “You’re wrong.” So, I really enjoyed the chance to kick ideas around with someone who was intelligent and well read and prepared to argue his point.